Talk:Wintersday contest
Spammin already... PvXWiki.com is offering Free Razer Mice to Contest Winners! Visit today to enter! ~~ [[User:frvwfr2|'frvwfr2']] (T/ /Sysop) 16:31, 21 December 2007 (EST) : ;)) gcardinal 16:34, 21 December 2007 (EST) :: Make sure you post it on forums and everywhere :) We need some nice images. gcardinal 16:50, 21 December 2007 (EST) :::But that means we have to sift through more stuff! :( [[User:Mgrinshpon|'—ǥrɩɳsɧ']][[User talk:Mgrinshpon|'ƿoɲ']] 17:05, 21 December 2007 (EST) :::: ooh, this sounds fun. єяøהħ 17:09, 21 December 2007 (EST) Can the screenshot be taken anywhere? Can it just have something to do with wintersday?--19px[[User:Victoryisyours|'Victory']][[User talk:Victoryisyours|'is']] 17:19, 21 December 2007 (EST) : Any screenshot that has something to do with the in-game festival. gcardinal 17:21, 21 December 2007 (EST) Would just like to offer Congratulations to whoever wins :) and Have A Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! [[User:Experienced|'Exper']][[User_talk:Experienced|'ienced']] 18:38, 21 December 2007 (EST) :You too.--19px[[User:Victoryisyours|'Victory']][[User talk:Victoryisyours|'is']] 18:45, 21 December 2007 (EST) :: Its Wintersday you silly Bookahs. EoD Itzl 15:19, 27 December 2007 (EST) This will be creating epic amounts of fame for razer. - Rawrawr 19:23, 21 December 2007 (EST) Probaly will cr8 alot of fame :) make alot of people happy too lol [[User:Experienced|'Exper']][[User_talk:Experienced|'ienced']] 19:44, 21 December 2007 (EST) lor=#B22222>cookies]] 20:42, 21 December 2007 (EST) :In game accnt does not matter, not sure about other part... -- [[User:frvwfr2|'frvwfr2']] (T/ /Sysop) 21:47, 21 December 2007 (EST) :: 3 winners will be selected after wintersday festival is over. Only ingame name is needed - not account name :) gcardinal 04:24, 22 December 2007 (EST) Wow I must say, razer is win.' — [[User:Teh Uber Pwnzer|Uber']][[User_talk:Teh Uber Pwnzer|'iz']] 03:54, 22 December 2007 (EST) :Just submitted my first one. I highly doubt I will win, though.' — [[User:Teh Uber Pwnzer|Uber']][[User_talk:Teh Uber Pwnzer|'iz']] 05:02, 22 December 2007 (EST) Errr... We are supposed to choose 3 EVERY DAY? I know they are just the best from that day, but we really don't get enough submissions for that... ~~ [[User:frvwfr2|'frvwfr2']] (T/ /Sysop) 17:18, 22 December 2007 (EST) :So, umm, how can the admins view the submissions? --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']]/sysop 17:27, 22 December 2007 (EST) ::Cardinal sent an email with the info to all of us. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 18:24, 22 December 2007 (EST) And as I understand it, we pick the best 3 every day and then, when wintersday is over, pick the best three out of all the daily bests and those are the winners who get the prizes. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 18:25, 22 December 2007 (EST) :I don't really think that's appropriate. I've not planned anything myself, but hand-drawn submissions might all pour in on the last day. The results would be irreparably skewed. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]] has 18:31, 22 December 2007 (EST) ::The contest has spurred me to restart my comic series, but the way I see it, the only way the community can match the expectations of the contest is to send in random screenshots. It's going to be a tough fit for hand-drawn submissions, and screenshots stop being "ROFL" material after the first dozen. -- [[User:Scottie theNerd|'Scottie_theNerd']] (argue) 18:40, 22 December 2007 (EST) Winners Posted for day 1 Here. --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']]/sysop 19:39, 22 December 2007 (EST) :And if your entry is there, it doesn't mean you've won a Razer mouse. It means yours was one of the top three entries from yesterday. The final winners (the people who get the Razer Deathadder) will be chosen from all the daily winners after the contest. So I guess you're the first three finalists. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 19:43, 22 December 2007 (EST) I screwed up I sent an entry, except it didn't fit exactly 1024 by 768. I'm going to send another, slightly skewed version. Hope that's alright. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]] has 21:30, 23 December 2007 (EST) :Seeing as we've gotten several entries without images, one or two without info, and numerous mediocre entries, I think we'll survive :P ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 21:32, 23 December 2007 (EST) ::And I don't think we've really been enforcing the size rule, tbh. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 21:34, 23 December 2007 (EST) :::Thank you for allaying my fears. Since there wasn't a set in stone deadline, I could've probably polished up my picture. I'll take this opportunity to make a disclaimer. There was one of those stupid eraser string residues above a candy cane. And it probably won't mean much, but I like improvised my pic using this picture and a I took. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]] has 21:56, 23 December 2007 (EST) Repeat winners? I didn't see anything about the same user winning over multiple days. It states that the same user can contribute up to 3 images per day, but does judging disregard previous winners? Is it therefore possible for one person to win more than once? -- [[User:Scottie theNerd|'Scottie_theNerd']] (argue) 18:55, 24 December 2007 (EST) Also, if your image loses one day, can you send the same image in the next? [[User:Viet| viзти]][[User talk:Viet|'αмзѕз']] 19:01, 24 December 2007 (EST) :I think it is fine to send same pic again, but we will not send more than 1 razer to anyone. You may be chosen as more than winner on a single day I believe. ~~ [[User:frvwfr2|'frvwfr2']] (T/ /Sysop) 19:06, 24 December 2007 (EST) ::K thanks for clarifying things. [[User:Viet| viзти]][[User talk:Viet|'αмзѕз']] 19:08, 24 December 2007 (EST) Email Question Quote "Subject of the mail must include “Images from wintersday #1”. Contest starts today 21.12.2007 – so its day 1, tomorrow its day 2 and so on. Make sure you submit images for the day that doesn’t have a winner yet." So if its the fifth day do I put Images from wintersday #5 as the subject? EoD Itzl 22:44, 25 December 2007 (EST) :Yes. ~~ [[User:frvwfr2|'frvwfr2']] (T/ /Sysop) 22:45, 25 December 2007 (EST) ::o frv u were to quick for me :( ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 22:46, 25 December 2007 (EST) :::Thanks for Clearing this up. EoD Itzl 22:47, 25 December 2007 (EST) ::::(dunno if im posting this correctly) Hmm, just a quick question. About our in game name and PvX Wiki username info, should we just include them in the e-mail like: PvXWiki name: Justice and ingame name: Icecold Scorpion ? :::::yup ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 23:24, 25 December 2007 (EST) Picture Question In my Entry I have attached the Image's to the E-Mail, would just like to know.. If that is the way I should be doing it :) [[User:Experienced|'Exper']][[User_talk:Experienced|'ienced']] 19:34, 26 December 2007 (EST) :correct ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 19:35, 26 December 2007 (EST) Ok Thanks for the Clarification ;) [[User:Experienced|'Exper']][[User_talk:Experienced|'ienced']] 23:42, 26 December 2007 (EST) Wow I thought the contest ended after three days. Haha, whoops. [[User:Shogunshen| Shen]] has 19:37, 26 December 2007 (EST) :fail on thinking that =o ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 19:48, 26 December 2007 (EST) Finalists? Hey, I was just wondering who reaches the finals, the Top ranked image each day or the top 3 images each day, 9 finalists or 27 finalists? (9 days right?) (Hope im posting this correctly this time :S) // Justice :there will be 3 chosen from all daily winners and those winners will recieve a razer ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 00:12, 27 December 2007 (EST) ::Whether you're first/second/third in a day doesn't really matter, just as long as you're in the top three. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 00:14, 27 December 2007 (EST) :::i r gonna make moar epic pics =D ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 00:16, 27 December 2007 (EST) ::::no me [[User:Viet| viзти]][[User talk:Viet|'αмзѕз']] 15:41, 27 December 2007 (EST) :::::no u ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 15:43, 27 December 2007 (EST) Context Question Can we us the word "Sex" in context. Such as "I know Sex Sells but this is ridiculus." EoD Itzl 15:13, 27 December 2007 (EST) :Yes, I don't see why not as long as there's no pornographic content. —ǥrɩɳsɧƴƿıę 15:31, 27 December 2007 (EST) ::P.S. You might want to use a spell-checker. It's spelled ridiculous. —ǥrɩɳsɧƴƿıę 15:31, 27 December 2007 (EST) ::: Thanks for the assist. P.S. I have junky spell checker (>_<)EoD Itzl 15:34, 27 December 2007 (EST) :::: Use Firefox. See http://getfirefox.com. —ǥrɩɳsɧƴƿıę 15:58, 27 December 2007 (EST) Extreme Mix Up?!?! For Day 6 it shows one of my pictures as first, normally I would be dancing around but there is one small problem... The First place picture was meant be entered for day 7. The Email I sent that image in the subject title was Day 7. Did I make it due to Time Zones? I am central time zone. I also sent one other image for day 7 did that also get judged for day 6 or day 7? Sincerely a confused, EoD Itzl 22:14, 27 December 2007 (EST) :Yeah, probably. Time zones are ftw at... times. :P -- Armond Warblade 03:02, 28 December 2007 (EST) ::Yeah cuz was pretty much like wtf 0_o; EoD Itzl 11:28, 28 December 2007 (EST) Post Winners? Shouldn't winners be posted already??.. it's day 9 ( For Day 8's Entrants ) and not posted yet =( [[User:Experienced|'Exper']][[User_talk:Experienced|'ienced']] 00:46, 30 December 2007 (EST) :O HAPPY NEW YEAR ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 00:51, 30 December 2007 (EST) ::Bah. I was hoping someone else would've done it, for a change. I'll get to it within the next hour or so. Probably :P ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 01:14, 30 December 2007 (EST) :::no srsly, i completely agree that u gotta do it. i mean like, u r the one ones massively deleting stuff :p now u gotta put stuff up :p ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 01:16, 30 December 2007 (EST) ::::>.> -- Armond Warblade 16:22, 30 December 2007 (EST) Full on Agreement.. Sysop's should Carbon Trade ( Or similar ) ! Replacing whatever they delete with MORE STUFF!! [[User:Experienced|'Exper']][[User_talk:Experienced|'ienced']] 21:40, 30 December 2007 (EST) Is it possible for one user to get more than one place on a day? [[User:Victoryisyours|'Victoryisyours']] (''talk''/''RfA'') 22:01, 30 December 2007 (EST) :I'd say no. Since you can only win one Razer, anyways, we'd just go with whichever of your entries is better. Though if you had two entries that were equally awesome, then I guess it would be possible :P ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 23:07, 30 December 2007 (EST) Done? So the 9th was the last day correct? EoD Itzl 12:12, 31 December 2007 (EST) :No. Guild Wars Wintersday goes from 21st of December and lasts until the 1st of January. During whole festival each day... Every day. Today (the 1st) is the last day for submissions. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 02:51, 1 January 2008 (EST) Winners for info User:Ssj2TrunksB and User:Leekanataka had both 2 top 3 works, but work from User:Leekanataka had first and second place, while work from User:Ssj2TrunksB second and third. Close one, but User:Leekanataka takes the 3rd place and the last mouse. gcardinal 14:58, 1 January 2008 (EST) :We still have another couple days to go, though, don't we? -- Armond Warblade 15:28, 1 January 2008 (EST) :Just today, I thought. Weren't the overall winners supposed to be picked on the 2nd? --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']]/sysop 15:29, 1 January 2008 (EST) ::Going to remove the winners information from the main page, then, until we get this sorted out. -- Armond Warblade 15:30, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::lol wut, the moar pics u have in top 3 the moar chance to win? wtf i just thought the 3 best would win and not everage :/ ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 15:44, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::: It is sorted Armond. It is until the 1st of January.. Please dont remove without asking first. gcardinal 15:58, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::::There's another day of entries to be decided, and there's also the matter of how it's judged as Hydra said. -- Armond Warblade 16:04, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::::: Contest is over, winners are announced. Nothing to change about it. Today is 01.01.2007 - it stays contest last until 01.01.2007. As it says winners will be annonced on the 2nd of january, I just did it 2 hours ahead thats all. gcardinal 16:08, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::::::The winners of day 10 aren't announced, and I'd still argue that's not the best way of judging. Skakid made a pretty awesome pic using the so often sneered upon bambi, I'm pretty surprised it's not in the winners. If we're judging just by "total points" (three for first place, two for second, one for third), I'd say that's a pretty poor system as someone just has to submit multiple entries on different days, and even if none of them compare to someone's one really good pic, they'll get a mouse and the other person won't. And I kinda feel that's what happened. -- Armond Warblade 16:12, 1 January 2008 (EST) ::::::::The winners for day 10 are announced, but I completely agree about how you win overall isn't right. [[User:Victoryisyours|'Victoryisyours']] (''talk''/''RfA'') 16:13, 1 January 2008 (EST) ::::::::: Armond please take time and read the email I send about this contest. gcardinal 16:14, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::::::::Day 11, sorry. I was talking about it with Wizardboy on msn and got confused. -- Armond Warblade 16:15, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::::::::: It last until 01.01.2007 not including 01.01.2007. gcardinal 16:16, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::::::::::As I understand it, though, we have winners for until 30 december, not 31 december. I could be completely wrong, though... -- Armond Warblade 16:18, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::::::::::: Last works posted on 01.01.2007 (today), 02.01.2007 overall winners are posted. Contest is about winetersdays memories - from each day as a series. And winners are pick based on the series - not on single submission. Admins got complete info in the mail I send ahead of this contest. As you all may understand explaining in details how winners will be selected will generate even more spam and it was to much as it was with current info. gcardinal 16:21, 1 January 2008 (EST) ::::::::::::: Anyway if there is a strong lust/need for selecting peoples favorite - we can do that. And prize can be a 100 ecto. (provided by me) And we will have many other contests and prizes so dont worry. gcardinal 16:25, 1 January 2008 (EST) What if someone only sent 1 picture which everyone liked and thought was great, but didn't submit anything for the other days. He has no chance at winning just because he submitted less pictures than others. For example, Scottie the Nerd, skakid, and shadowsin all had really great ones for a day. But they can't win because they didn't submit as many? [[User:Victoryisyours|'Victoryisyours']] (''talk''/''RfA'') 16:28, 1 January 2008 (EST) :It comes down to, were the sysops supposed to pick the overall winners, or was someone else? I for one was acting on the impression that the sysops were. If, however, there were other plans and those simply weren't clear, that's something else. But Edru, Wizardboy, Grinch, and I are all online and were thinking about choosing the overall winners. -- Armond Warblade 16:33, 1 January 2008 (EST) ::So i really had no chance at all because i didnt submit pictures for more than one day? o.O --[[User:Shadowsin|'Shadow'sin]] 16:53, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::That's what I was saying. [[User:Victoryisyours|'Victoryisyours']] (''talk''/''RfA'') 17:12, 1 January 2008 (EST) ::::I know i just dont understand how this was working. seems stupid to me.--[[User:Shadowsin|'Shadow'sin]] 17:13, 1 January 2008 (EST) So honestly what the hell is happening? Are those results final? Is there going to be a different contest? Seriously this seems like it quickly went to hell.... EoD Itzl 17:59, 1 January 2008 (EST) :: Results are final. Winners will be contacted by Razer. If there is so big need for selecting 1 overall best work - we can do that. Prize will be 100 Ectoplasm provided by me. Winners are selected - discussion over it makes no sense. In rules it stays "announce 3 lucky winners" - and they are. There will be more contest with more prizes so please lets congratulate the current winners and move to another contest with leasons learnd from this one. gcardinal 18:08, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::meh, could have told me if i would snd just 1 pic i had no chance at all.. ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 18:11, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::: EoD Itzl - you are one of the winners so of course you will get your prize! I am sorry that another discussion destroyed another great moment. Sorry for that, will try to do better next time. gcardinal 18:13, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::::epic contest here, just epic, rly ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 18:18, 1 January 2008 (EST) ::::::I think it's more a question of who deserved the prizes than a question of who did the "one overall best work". Losing the contest is one thing, but finding out you had no chance is another. But, as you said, lessons learned for next time. Also, cardinal, I've not received your email, unless you mean the one you sent before the contest, which said nothing about judging except that we should do it. -- Armond Warblade 18:23, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::::::Indeed. If it had been explained that people who sent in just one amazing entry would have absolutely no chance of beating those who sent in a mediocre to good entry every day, no one would be QQing, but as it is, that wasn't explained, and people who should have won a mouse now learn that they didn't have the slightest chance. --[[User:Edru_viransu|'Edru viransu']]//[[User_talk:Edru_viransu|'QQ about me']]/sysop 18:46, 1 January 2008 (EST) The contest page said quality over quantity, just throwing that out there. — Skadiddly슴Mc슴Diddles 18:41, 1 January 2008 (EST) :Guild Wars Wintersday goes from 21st of December and lasts until the 1st of January. During whole festival each day we want you to capture that day in image and send it to us! Image can be anything from screenshot to drawing or even a comic! As long as it reflects Guild Wars Wintersday festival - it can compete for the great prizes! also, where did they say quality? ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 18:44, 1 January 2008 (EST) ::Maybe I was imagining things. — Skadiddly슴Mc슴Diddles 18:45, 1 January 2008 (EST) ::::::: All of you will have another chance of winning in another contest. Winners are selected, submited to Razer. You can go ahead and propose another contest with another set of rules. This was the first contest, more of a try how it all goes and check for interest. It is over now. If you want to comment on how it all went you can use my talk page. gcardinal 18:45, 1 January 2008 (EST) ::::::: Community is welcome to select 1 best work from all day-to-day winners. Author will get consolatory prize an in-game 100 globs of ectoplasm. gcardinal 18:45, 1 January 2008 (EST) ::::::::o can i hav sum ectos plx gud sir? =o ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 18:47, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::::::I dont think we (or at least some of us) want you to waste 100 ectoes on us, its just the contest didn't say Whoever submits the most amounts of winners. [[User:Victoryisyours|'Victoryisyours']] (''talk''/''RfA'') 18:47, 1 January 2008 (EST) I could care less, my ball mouse works fine for me. But 100 ectos, hot dog. — Skadiddly슴Mc슴Diddles 18:48, 1 January 2008 (EST) :+1 for VIY, but....i also like ectos :D ----[[User:InfestedHydralisk|'Infested'Hydralisk]] 19px([[User_talk:InfestedHydralisk|'Talk']]* ) 18:50, 1 January 2008 (EST) XD lol didnt relize day 10 was last day i sent one in for day 11 on 31st... sorry bout that, but anyways grats winners :) Ssj2TrunksB 18:57, 1 January 2008 (EST) How are the winner being contacted? EoD Itzl 18:58, 1 January 2008 (EST) :+1 QQ .........--[[User:Shadowsin|'Shadow'sin]] 19:03, 1 January 2008 (EST) :: I mean how are they supposed to be contacted by Razer? EoD Itzl 20:55, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::We have your pvx username, your email address, and your IGN. Since doing it on pvx would reveal your personal information to everyone, and there's no guarantee you'd be on guild wars at any given time, I'm guessing email. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 22:29, 1 January 2008 (EST) :::: You will be contacted by email. 193.215.6.253 02:32, 2 January 2008 (EST) Feedback I was personally quite surprised at the sudden end to the contest. It was turning out to be a fairly good competition, but the handling of the contest and the choice of winners is unacceptable. The contest is over, however, and congratulations to the winners for their efforts and new mice. I would like to take this opportunity to provide some comments on the contest, and hopefully gather together thoughts and opinions to improve how future contests will be organised. I have attempted to identify the key points of criticism and controversy: *'Communication'. If there was only one source of problems in the contest, it would be from the lack of communication, including communication between admins (I'm in no position to verify that myself) and communication with the entrants. This lack of communication can be seen in the following: **''Lack of criteria'': The "rules" section on the contest page was barely two paragraphs long, offering no guidelines on what should be submitted and how they are going to be judged. Leaving a completely unguided "best three" selection means that entrants are unable to submit works that fulfill the "hidden criteria" that the judges follow. gcardinal recently explained on the Talk page after the contest that the submissions were meant to be a "series" to represent the Wintersday event as a "series" **''Conflicting information'': Namely, the judges contradicting each other on the Talk page. This is not a direct criticism of the judges themselves, but an observation on the information being provided to entrants. **''Unexplained winner selection process'': The biggest sign of lack of communication. This has already been discussed above: if the entrants knew that they were being selected based on a points system, there would be less complaining. However, the contest page and at least one judge explained that the winner would be selected out of the top 3 of each contest day. Instead, it turns out that the final three winners are the ones who placed highest overall. This unexplained process is a clear example of entrants being cheated. To be clear: I'm not complaining about not winning; but if I knew that I was expected to submit at least one entry every day to have a chance at winning, I probably would not have bothered. **''Ambiguous dates'': No time zones were specified for the submission deadlines, and the final date of submission was not explicitly stated. gcardinal highlighted that the contest would run "until January 1st 2008", but that does not clarify whether it is the last day of submissions or the last day that winners will be posted. The confusion lies in whether the submission dates go for 10 days or 12 days, considering how long it takes for winners to be posted. Additional confusion was caused when the winners were announced on Jan 1st instead of Jan 2nd, immediately after the Day 10 winners were posted. *'Selection process': As said above, the key complaint was that the entrants did not know that winners were being selected on a points-based system. However, using a points-based process is flawed and not appropriate for this sort of contest. It is highly demanding to expect entrants to submit works every day over the Christmas holiday -- costing time playing GW itself, and time spent with real life commitments. This narrows the field of entrants down to a select few with no real life commitments and a lot of time on their hands, and discriminates against entrants who put the time to submit single, quality works instead of numerous screenshots. The points-based system specifically creates losers: not the people who weren't the selected on each day, but entrants were won but had absolutely no chance at the final prize. **There's also the inherent contradiction of the contest's supposed methodology. If the contest awards points and determines the winner with the rationale that the season is a "series", why are the entries not judged as a series? I don't think anyone submitted their works as "series", and repeat winners worked off independent submissions that had nothing to do with each other. The fact that the contest selects individual winners each day defeats the spirit of the supposed "series" -- series should be judged as a whole, not as individual submissions, if that were to be the case. One look at the Talk page reveals confusion among the entrants and confusion among the judges. If you look at it optimistically, this was a successful competition and serves as valuable experience for future contests. Realistically, the contest was a sham and the entrants were cheated out of what they believed they were supposed to be doing. There is too much being hidden from the entrants (and judges, in some cases) and too much discretion being exercised by the top-level judge. Throwing out a 100e complementary prize is unnecessary; it's nothing but salt in the wounds. Calling it a "consolatory prize" is an insult to the entrants who put in the time and effort to create individual quality works. -- [[User:Scottie theNerd|'Scottie_theNerd']] (argue) 01:12, 3 January 2008 (EST) : We all understand that. Unfortunately it is not as simple as it may look to you from your point of view. It was all said before and I did get the point - repeating it makes no better. As I said before you can go ahead and propose another contest/competition with another set of rules. : Basicly the main reason for miss-understanding in the end - is me getting stressed up. I discussed rules with guys from Razer - exactly this pattern of selecting winners - and they told me it was okey. Then I discussed it with some admins, users my gf and so on, and somewhere in process I just got tired of repeating my self and just told what I was thinking was important. It all happen just hours before I went on my plain to Portugal. There was basically no internet what so ever. And when I did come back again hours from arriving in my head it all was pretty clear - I was following the exact pattern of selecting winners. For me it is pretty much the same how we select the winners - I can't win anyway so as long as it fair and works it is fine by me. So I just want to tell you guys that what happen was just a miss understanding and bad information from my side. : Even with all that, this contest was a test and it worked well as a test. There basicaly no need to go over it all over again and again - it is not like this was a 10th contest that went bad. Just come up with another suggestions for another contest and lets just move on. gcardinal 02:33, 3 January 2008 (EST) ::Come up with suggestions? What do you think I'm doing? If we're going to have another contest, we'd better damn well take into account the experience gained from this contest. You can't go around saying "Yeah, I know, I know, stop repeating it, let's move on". This is for you to consider next time you run a contest. This contest was an epic failure, and unless we look back on what went wrong, we will not attract interest in future contests. The Wintersday contest attracted many new users to the site, and that is a success by itself. Cheating these users out of what they deserve will not be a good sign for future competitions. The contest was not fair. The contest did not work. We've put in the effort to submit entries to make this contest work, and you've gone "One, Two, Three, you guys win". I know I don't see things from your end, but you're not seeing things from our end and you are making it worse by dismissing legitimate (and well-articulated) feedback and offering consolatory prizes. ::If you want to do better next time, listen to the users. It's barely been a day since the contest formally ended. This is the time to gather feedback from users and judges. This is not the time to close yourself off from comments and criticism, because you don't know everything that needs to be improved. Botching a 10th contest is cause for concern, but botching the first contest means that something has gone drastically wrong. We look at feedback from the contest (positive and negative) first, then we start planning out the next one. -- [[User:Scottie theNerd|'Scottie_theNerd']] (argue) 02:57, 3 January 2008 (EST) :I agree, but also you have to take into account that this was the first contest, things will change, we do need to move on. It looks like this contest was a failure but its a good way to make the next one much better. I think that the admins are more than capable of putting the next contest right. Moving on is an extremely good idea at the moment for obvious reasons. Skakid has been a very good sport about this along with other users that probably should have had more of a chance of winning. The voting process was flawwed, but lets have a chance to fix it before we start getting all mad. Knowing what went wrong in this contest is a great base for the next one, im eager to see the next contest. With gcardinal it looks like he was in circumstances where he couldnt do much about guiding the contest to the end unfortunate timing was a factor in this and im sure that everything will be fixed before the next contest. If i am right i think that this talk page will be heavily visited by the admins and things will be changed. For now i think that just letting it go is a good idea. [[User:Beast194|'''Beast]][[User_talk:Beast194|194']](talk) 03:17, 3 January 2008 (EST) ::This contest was a test. After a test, one should look at the results and analyse them. That is proper experimentation method. A test only "works well" once the results have been analysed and conclusions have been drawn. This is the chance for users to contribute their observations, and for admins to look at for future contests. We know the contest was flawed; this serves to illustrate ''why it was flawed so that in future we can avoid the same mistakes. If this page will be heavily looked at in the future by admins prior to organising another contest, it would be appropriate to discuss the results of this contest procedure so that there actually is something to look at. Problems do not solve themselves, and "next time" will not automatically better without looking back. We can reflect on this contest with it still fresh in our minds, and build up a page full of information for the next contest to consider. -- [[User:Scottie theNerd|'Scottie_theNerd']] (argue) 03:30, 3 January 2008 (EST) Your whole paragraph above my comment was saying how bad it was that the contest failed, i dont think anyone is kidding themselves into thinking that this contest was a success, im saying using more constructive criticism would help, sayin how many people wouldnt visit pvx anymore isnt a good way to improve next time, i agree with parts of what you are saying, but you have to realize that your comment hasnt been helpful. Gcardinal was saying come up with another suggestion, going over how bad the contest turned out is not making a suggestion. Your first suggestion was good, i think now all thats needed is suggestions. You made your suggestion, everyone can see that so if you come up with another one, please post it otherwise please drop the whole thing, your comment has been salt in the wound, your suggestion was welcome. [[User:Beast194|'''Beast]][[User_talk:Beast194|194']](talk) 03:50, 3 January 2008 (EST) : First of all even winners was picked in a different way then some user has expected - winners did an outstanding job. We had submissions, people worked hard and winners was selected. Me and Razer as organizers of this contest agreed on this was of selecting the winners - maybe it wasnt what some people expected and we are sorry for that. However it is wrong to say that contest was a failure. Mistakes was made and we will learn from that. I got that no need to re-post the same things all over again. If you think you can do better - propose another contest. You simple cant change the past and agruing here want do anything good at all. gcardinal 03:59, 3 January 2008 (EST) ::The way I see it, no one is attempting to change the past - Scottie was simply pointing out what specific mistakes were made, as you said, cardinal. His method might be somewhat objectionable, I'll grant you that, but he's not wrong and asking him to host a contest on his own is unreasonable. -- Armond Warblade 04:15, 3 January 2008 (EST) ::: Well I did "host" this contest in like an hour or so - so people could have some fun during the holidays. I almost missed my plain couse of all this - and sure I know that mistakes was made and I do see them my self pretty clear :) However only the new contest will fix this. gcardinal 04:18, 3 January 2008 (EST) ::::My primary intention of creating this feedback list is to summarise what has already been said rather than repeating it. I hope that my list of observations will be of use for future contests when they are organised, and I'm sure it will save the effort of reading the unstructured discussion above this. I apologise for the harsh comments following gcardinal's response. -- [[User:Scottie theNerd|'Scottie_theNerd''']] (argue) 04:27, 3 January 2008 (EST) Contact When are the three winners supposed to be contacted? Because it has been two days and I have yet to have any emails from Razer. EoD Itzl 17:09, 3 January 2008 (EST)